Yesterday, I posted the response of Fr. Peter Jon Gillquist and his church to the contretemps about the Traditionalist Youth Network (TYN). The TYN has responded and made several points worth highlighting. I urge you to read their entire statement.
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“Our priest knew of our actual stated beliefs, from our own mouths, after having seen us respectfully and humbly enjoying fellowship with an especially diverse congregation. Had he bothered to Google us, he may have raised some additional concerns or even ran us off altogether.”
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“While we didn’t actually conceal our beliefs from him, our beliefs are grossly divergent from what you and others have been led to believe.”
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“The thing about some grand race war is a gross exaggeration, which we expressly reject. The world always has been and will continue to be racially diverse, and our White American communities would hope to be good neighbors with the other communities.”
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“North America is a gigantic Continent, and I’ve already gone on record stating that Amerindian/First Nation reservations should not only be preserved, but expanded and relied on as a model for more extensive protection and promotion of distinct ethnic communities.”
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“We did not instigate the beating. We have been repeatedly and relentlessly attacked by Leftists, and we did no more than what was necessary to defend ourselves against an unprovoked attack by anti-Christian extremists.”
The post is long enough that I could not quote all the quotable statements. I, again, urge you to read it. The first quote is an issue that has been brought up by some of the people who commented on my previous posts. Nevertheless, I will still argue that Fr. Peter did not fully understand the movement. Why not?
https://transculturalexchange.org/t1tfzvrq Well, what is written points to the TYN being a kinist organization. What is a kinist?
https://aiohealthpro.com/f4g0dyd1 Kinism is the belief that the God-ordained social order for humanity is "tribal and ethnic," and focuses on man’s duty to "love one’s own kind". Kinists advocate the idea that extended families should live together in large groups. They believe the ideal and normative social order for families – and by extension communities, states and nations – is one defined by race and blood, not propositions or borders, and that this natural order forms the proper and lasting bonds of affection and loyalty for any legitimate society. It is considered an offshoot of Christian Reconstructionism that originated among anti-immigration traditionalists in the Southern United States.
The movement has been criticized. “Douglas Wilson suggests that it is a ‘white pride movement’ that goes beyond gratitude for one’s culture to ‘racial animosity’ and ‘mocking and making fun of blacks for their race.’ However, he stated that he certainly doesn’t object to the Kinist idea of being ‘grateful for your people, for your customs, for your culture’ and said that ‘I’m all about that. I think that that’s a good thing.’”
Now, let me give you a phrase that may twist your minds a bit. All Christian Identity people are kinists, not all kinists are Christian Identity. So, what is Christian Identity?
https://udaan.org/jq641ry.php Christian Identity (also known as Identity Christianity) refers to a wide variety of loosely affiliated believers and churches with a white supremacist theology. Most promote a racist interpretation of Christianity.
TYN appears to be arguing that they are kinists, but not Christian identity, and that, therefore, the title racist should not be applied to them. Actually, I somewhat agree with TYN on this. If you would read back to my last two posts, the only time that I use the term “racist” is the two times that I quoted someone else.
A kinist can, indeed, worship in a racially mixed parish, though they may prefer a non-mixed parish. A kinist is not necessarily an overt racist, although I agree with theologian Douglas Wilson on his appreciation of what the movement can lead to.
https://homeupgradespecialist.com/b8sj6uev Let me give you a final definition, that of White Nationalism. All White Nationalist are kinists, but not all kinists are White Nationalists.
https://foster2forever.com/2024/08/xah53ljqoa4.html White nationalist groups espouse white supremacist or white separatist ideologies, often focusing on the alleged inferiority of non-whites. … These groups range from those that use racial slurs and issue calls for violence to others that present themselves as serious, non-violent organizations and employ the language of academia.
https://blog.extraface.com/2024/08/07/ka59cgd96ge As you can see, these group definitions overlap, but are not identical with each other. They are not simply a shell-game to hide organizations. The differences found in the various movements sometimes determine whether a group will have relations with another group or not.
https://merangue.com/2j916aau Nevertheless, the problem is that in many cases, most of these groups are fellow-travelers. And, the problem with TYN, is that various of their previous blog statements lead one to believe that this is not a “pure” kinist group, but that it has overlaps with the other groups mentioned. Mr. Heimbach, himself, has a previous history that is much less peaceful than is currently being portrayed. See below for a photograph from late last year in which Mr. Heimbach is clearly present and saluting, along with posted swastikas, etc.
https://inteligencialimite.org/2024/08/07/8md7yd9 
https://www.psicologialaboral.net/2024/08/07/5mj4lqm Thus, the concern for me was that Mr. Heimbach’s public statements, after becoming Orthodox, harked back to his history, which included the photograph above. Though the TYN claims to have nothing against Jews, the photo above belies that claim. That, coupled with the almost gleeful statements found in the “battle photo” meant that this was a subject that needed to be addressed. It is one thing to be a gentle academic kinist. It is another thing to live with swastikas and claim you are not for the extermination of anyone.
https://blog.extraface.com/2024/08/07/rhf7j4t90 Finally, TYN is fully correct in one of the statements above. In various campuses in various parts of the USA, violence against conservative counter-demonstrators is covertly tolerated by the administration. In fact, Mr. Heimbach was NOT charged in the fight that was documented by the photograph precisely because he was the victim. He engaged in self-defense. Having said that, remember that Saint Augustine’s just war theory talks about proportionality. Just between you and me, I think the response was a little less than proportional.
My objection to the picture was for the various reasons that I have written about in the last couple of days and today. I do not necessarily have an objection to the clearly established fact that Mr. Heimbach was defending himself. Some of you may wish to argue for a more pacifistic stance. Please do. But, please do not conflate self-defense with those ideas and issues to which many are objecting.
Finally, I recommend to the Orthodox members of TYN that you take a time to decompress, to quiet down. Give yourselves an additional six months to read up on Orthodoxy, phyletism (not ethnophyletism, just phyletism), on our history (both good and horrific), etc. Take your time to just bask in the Holy Spirit. Wait until next school year before you involve yourselves in anything. See what happens.
https://eloquentgushing.com/eo8nxvq Should you wish to correspond privately with me, I would be glad to correspond with you.
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Jennifer Barefoot McCoy says
I can appreciate that the atomization of society first into the nuclear family and then into mere individuals has been a destructive force. I cannot at all wrap my head around the need to bring race or ethnicity into the process of reconstructing and re-implementing communitarian ideals. What would kinists do with interracial families, when your kin are of a different “ethnicity” or “race”? I’m flabbergasted by this whole thing because I just can’t imagine that mattering the tiniest bit.
https://inteligencialimite.org/2024/08/07/o9rze9c6tv
Some other points that need to be made: the Western world, certainly the United States, is still very much run by white people; they remain dominant in all areas of life. If these guys feel left out of that, this is a class issue, not one of race. (See also the link I post below.)
https://www.clawscustomboxes.com/31ms06j Second, there is no such thing as “white culture”. There are various cultures emanating from various “white” ethnic groups of European descent. In the United States, culture as a whole is a rich tapestry reflecting its northern European roots along with many things emanating from many other sources, European and non-European. Because of this, culture in the United States is incredibly rich. However, very frankly, American culture is very often at its most banal where it is the whitest. (NASCAR? What passes for country music these days?) Sorry, but that’s the case.
https://www.completerehabsolutions.com/blog/t63ed7d Third, our friends to whom this is addressed consistently want to relate the question of homosexuality with that of ethnicity. What is ironic about that is that both the African-American and Hispanic communities tend to be quite conservative when it comes to sexual matters. Thus, in 2008, the influx of new A-A and Hispanic voters in California were responsible for Barack Obama taking California AND for the passage of Proposition 8, which prohibited same-sex marriage in that state. Or, look at the Anglican situation. When the Episcopal Church consecrated an openly gay bishop and began permitting the blessing of same-sex relationships, those who opposed this turned to the global south, especially sub-saharan Africa, for episcopal oversight and eventually, episcopal orders. Thus, it is clear that there is no inherent connection between being “pro-white” or whatever and being anti-homosexual.
Fourth, while reading up on phyletism (as well as what “catholicity” means), you may also wish to consider the following:
Buy Xanax Argentina http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/09/01/benjamin-todd-jealous-on-gloucester-rebellion/2730559/
https://merangue.com/mblrgac0l Now, let’s get a bit theological, shall we? Scripture, the rest of the Tradition, and science all make it very clear that there is but one human race. Theologically, ethnic divisions and especially, interethnic hostility are a result of the fall (for example, the Tower of Babel, Genesis 11:4-9). This is also true of socioeconomic differentiation and oppression as well as patriarchy (Genesis 3).
Now, it is true that these emerge, and, whether they are directly willed by God or not, they serve to keep humanity from destroying itself before the coming of Christ and, in fact, God chooses a specific ethnic groups, the Jews, to have a special relation with, and from which to being forth the ultimate solution to the Fall and its consequent effects, that being the incarnation, virgin birth, life, execution, and resurrection of the Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth.
In establishing the Church, Christ (and the Holy Spirit) begin the process of transcending all human differentiation and oppression based on these and all other categories that divide humanity. “All are one in Christ Jesus”. This process is not complete and will not be complete until the Age-to-Come. However, the pilgrim Church on earth is to live its life as close to that reality as is possible. In the United States, this clearly means, at the very least, multi-ethnic parishes. We also note Acts 2:44-45: the earliest believers lived a communal lifestyle. Thus, we seek to equalize, as far as is practical, the socioeconomic status of all people, and especially, all Americans (Personally, I think that postwar Germany is the economic model we should emulate:)
http://www.amazon.com/Were-You-Born-Wrong-Continent/dp/1595587063
Thus, in light of this, it is clear that white nationalism is a step backward when it comes to the overall thrust and movement of the Church and the Kingdom of God which, since the Incarnation, has been cominto the world in power. In the Age to Come, the realities that “God is all-in-all” and “All are one in Christ Jesus” will be fully manifest. In the here and now, we are to work to make them as fully manifest as possible. This is how we act in accord with what we pray when we say, “Our Father….Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.”
My comment (which, at last check, had been dropped in moderation limbo, probably because of the links):
Some other points that need to be made: the Western world, certainly the United States, is still very much run by white people; they remain dominant in all areas of life. If these guys feel left out of that, this is a class issue, not one of race. (See also the link I post below.)
Second, there is no such thing as “white culture”. There are various cultures emanating from various “white” ethnic groups of European descent. In the United States, culture as a whole is a rich tapestry reflecting its northern European roots along with many things emanating from many other sources, European and non-European. Because of this, culture in the United States is incredibly rich. However, very frankly, American culture is very often at its most banal where it is the whitest. (NASCAR? What passes for country music these days?) Sorry, but that’s the case.
Third, our friends to whom this is addressed consistently want to relate the question of homosexuality with that of ethnicity. What is ironic about that is that both the African-American and Hispanic communities tend to be quite conservative when it comes to sexual matters. Thus, in 2008, the influx of new A-A and Hispanic voters in California were responsible for Barack Obama taking California AND for the passage of Proposition 8, which prohibited same-sex marriage in that state. Or, look at the Anglican situation. When the Episcopal Church consecrated an openly gay bishop and began permitting the blessing of same-sex relationships, those who opposed this turned to the global south, especially sub-saharan Africa, for episcopal oversight and eventually, episcopal orders. Thus, it is clear that there is no inherent connection between being “pro-white” or whatever and being anti-homosexual.
Fourth, while reading up on phyletism (as well as what “catholicity” means), you may also wish to consider the following:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/09/01/benjamin-todd-jealous-on-gloucester-rebellion/2730559/
Now, let’s get a bit theological, shall we? Scripture, the rest of the Tradition, and science all make it very clear that there is but one human race. Theologically, ethnic divisions and especially, interethnic hostility are a result of the fall (for example, the Tower of Babel, Genesis 11:4-9). This is also true of socioeconomic differentiation and oppression as well as patriarchy (Genesis 3).
Now, it is true that these emerge, and, whether they are directly willed by God or not, they serve to keep humanity from destroying itself before the coming of Christ and, in fact, God chooses a specific ethnic groups, the Jews, to have a special relation with, and from which to being forth the ultimate solution to the Fall and its consequent effects, that being the incarnation, virgin birth, life, execution, and resurrection of the Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth.
In establishing the Church, Christ (and the Holy Spirit) begin the process of transcending all human differentiation and oppression based on these and all other categories that divide humanity. “All are one in Christ Jesus”. This process is not complete and will not be complete until the Age-to-Come. However, the pilgrim Church on earth is to live its life as close to that reality as is possible. In the United States, this clearly means, at the very least, multi-ethnic parishes. We also note Acts 2:44-45: the earliest believers lived a communal lifestyle. Thus, we seek to equalize, as far as is practical, the socioeconomic status of all people, and especially, all Americans (Personally, I think that postwar Germany is the economic model we should emulate:)
http://www.amazon.com/Were-You-Born-Wrong-Continent/dp/1595587063
Thus, in light of this, it is clear that white nationalism is a step backward when it comes to the overall thrust and movement of the Church and the Kingdom of God which, since the Incarnation, has been cominto the world in power. In the Age to Come, the realities that “God is all-in-all” and “All are one in Christ Jesus” will be fully manifest. In the here and now, we are to work to make them as fully manifest as possible. This is how we act in accord with what we pray when we say, “Our Father….Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.”
“It is considered an offshoot of Christian Reconstructionism that originated among anti-immigration traditionalists in the Southern United States.”
Christian Reconstructionism (founded by R.J. Rushdoony) is very scary stuff, dogmatically way off the mark and violent. I think it’s fair to call it bloodthirsty. Orthodox Christians should have nothing to do with it. Leading Reconstructionists (like Gary North) want a civil society ruled by Old Testament law, and have gone on record advocating the death penalty by public stoning of many kinds of “offenders,” including “women who lie about their virginity,” homosexuals, and rebellious children (yes, children). North has stated that God “hates the sinner as much as the sin.”
It seems that, complying with the request of their priest, Mr. Heimbach and Mr. Parrott are taking “a sabbatical”. My response to this follows the link below:
http://www.tradyouth.org/2014/05/our-sabbatical/
“Nobody is threatening the ‘right of white people to exist’. Quite the opposite. White people pretty much rule the world. When you get that, IF you get that, everything else should fall into place.
“Anyway, I’m pleased that you are willing to take a sabbatical. This willingness to comply with your priest’s request in this regard bodes well. Know that many, many people, even if you consider them adversaries, are praying for you and are, in fact, concerned about your spiritual welfare.”
I would encourage anyone who is supportive of this step and is willing to uphold these young men, along with their priest and bishop, in prayer, to communicate this to them.