Recently there was a news article that garnered some attention because it allowed for much hilarity from late-night comedians. Sadly it was an article summarizing a study that found that people who were regular attenders at church were fatter than others in this already quite fat country:
https://aiohealthpro.com/59pt64r Young, religiously active people are more likely than their non-religious counterparts to become obese in middle age, according to new research. In fact, frequent religious involvement appears to almost double the risk of obesity compared with little or no involvement. …
The new research, presented at an American Heart Association conference dedicated to physical activity, metabolism and cardiovascular disease, involved 2,433 people enrolled in the Coronary Artery Risk Development in Young Adults (CARDIA) study. The group was tested – at first between 20 and 32 years old – for various cardiovascular disease risk factors such as diabetes, hypertension, and smoking. Those same tests were repeated in the same group over the next 25 years.
https://udaan.org/7vmu9vgq0hl.php The results were mixed for many risk factors for cardiovascular disease, but as researchers analyzed the data, one disparity stood out. Those who reported attending church weekly, or more often, were significantly more likely to have a higher body mass index than those who attended infrequently, or never.
https://eloquentgushing.com/gsge0h2o The people who presented the study carefully tried not to offend anyone by saying that they could not determine why church people were more obese than other already obese Americans. But, whatever the reason turns out to be, I suspect that there is a strong theological reason for it. And that is that USA Catholic and Protestant church culture has, in effect, thrown away any Scriptures that call church folk to fast regularly. Any of us can do a search on the web and find a significant number of articles whose main purpose seems to be to explain why you are not bound to fast. Even when the article is promoting fasting, it appears to do spend as much time assuring people that they do not have to fast as they do explaining the calling to fast.
Cheap Alprazolam From Mexico Surprisingly, there are even articles that doubt that there is much of any New Testament call to fast, even though the Lord talked about us fasting after the bridegroom had gone, talked about certain demons only coming out by prayer and fasting, talked about cleaning your face while fasting so that people might not know you are fasting, etc. There are additional Scriptures about fasting to be found in the New Testament as well. Frankly, outside of Orthodox circles I have not heard a sermon on “mortifying” the flesh in a long time, and I tend to regularly cruise the web looking for sermon topics. Any sermon on mortifying the flesh would probably be met with an outcry from folks in the pew, who would promptly charge the pastor with legalism and a failure to understand the Gospel.
And that is the main theological problem in America today. It is one thing to theologically argue that we must avoid “works-righteousness.” But, it is a completely different matter to use this concept as the excuse for laying aside what the Old Testament, the New Testament, and Holy Tradition pass on to us. We are in the Season of Lent. There are enough vestiges of what it meant to observe Lent, including among the old Protestant Reformers, that even secular people know that somehow Lent is synonymous with avoiding meat and/or eating less. And, yet, today all too many Catholics and Protestants neither keep the fast nor encourage those who do. Rather the encouragement is to eat more and to eat non-Lenten food.
Xanax Online India Frankly, it is no surprise that those who put aside one of God’s faithful manners in which to learn self-control of the passions are also those who show that lack of self-control in their very body. We get busy condemning other sins of the body, but we are mysteriously silent about gluttony. We neither fast nor do we condemn gluttony. Is it any surprise we are more obese as a Church? Here, though, is what is incredibly sad. It is those secular people, whom all too many Christians call tree-huggers, who, for purely secular and philosophical reasons, exercise the very self-control that fasting ought to teach us, who are the ones who are much closer to normal weight. It ought not to be so.
https://polyploid.net/blog/?p=ilt9885l
Ryan says
https://oevenezolano.org/2024/08/p7vhhvfy
I think it’s unfortunate that we necessarily equate obesity with gluttony. Now that I am not obese (have lost 115 lbs this year) I am more guilty of gluttony on a regular bases. Gluttony comes from putting too much emphasis on food. So now I have a mindset of “such and such food is not good enough” or “I must eat this kind of food,” instead of being humble when approaching it. Thin, athletic people often place as much importance on food as grossly obese people. They may or may not eat the same quantity (debatable), but they will put food on the same pedestal, which is the heart of gluttony.
I think a more reasonable explanation, assuming the study had controls for geography/income, would be to suggest that church culture values a kind of food that leads to obesity. American Christians tend to value “comfort foods,” like bread, fried chicken, mashed potatoes, desserts, etc. This is not that they are necessarily eating more, but they are eating the wrong things.
https://eloquentgushing.com/5y2l6ea8kk
From CS Lewis’ book, The Screwtape Letters:
https://blog.extraface.com/2024/08/07/s5rc4g26ecu https://transculturalexchange.org/mbbgppvjui MY DEAR WORMWOOD,
https://transculturalexchange.org/nc0cpboeun The contemptuous way in which you spoke of gluttony as a means of catching souls, in your last letter, only shows your ignorance. One of the great, achievements of the last hundred years has been to deaden the human conscience on that subject, so that by now you will hardly find a sermon preached or a conscience troubled about it in the whole length and breadth of Europe. This has largely been effected by concentrating all our efforts on gluttony of Delicacy, not gluttony of Excess. Your patient’s mother, as I learn from the dossier and you might have learned from Glubose, is a good example. She would be astonished—one day, I hope, will be—to learn that her whole life is enslaved to this kind of sensuality, which is quite concealed from her by the fact that the quantities involved are small. But what do quantities matter, provided we can use a human belly and palate to produce querulousness, impatience, uncharitableness, and self-concern?
In the quote above, CS Lewis follows the Church Fathers as defining gluttony as containing two types, which may or may not co-exist in the same person. For instance, St. John Cassian in his Institutes, Book V Chapter 5 makes the identical point as CS Lewis, it is just that the CS Lewis quotation is one that makes me laugh while skewering me.
https://oevenezolano.org/2024/08/n5sjcppp You are describing “gluttony of Delicacy,” but, as St. John Cassian and CS Lewis points out, there is also “gluttony of Excess.” They both co-exist, and all too much of the Church is guilty of gluttony of Excess, which is what the study found.
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Ryan says
https://merangue.com/2wu9xys
https://www.clawscustomboxes.com/4d6htoazvl Actually, I think the passage from Lewis makes my perfect clear. “But what do quantities matter, provided we can use a human belly and palate to produce querulousness, impatience, uncharitableness, and self-concern?”
https://inteligencialimite.org/2024/08/07/2t8cfjk9v More directly stated I disagree that obesity = gluttony of excess. It’s a great and unhelpful myth that obesity comes from a “lack of control,” as you have stated. You see the correlation between church involvement and obesity and say “they lack self control! see!,” however obesity is not nearly that simple on a chemical, physical and psychological level. http://www.garytaubes.com/2010/12/inanity-of-overeating/
https://mandikaye.com/blog/e78z256
AnitaAshland says
https://polyploid.net/blog/?p=sfvzisaoj
By Alprazolam Online Ryan,
https://udaan.org/43t220wq0tn.php I agree with you that obesity is a complex problem. An endocrinologist I know specializes in obesity and she has told me that there are often many outside factors at work besides calories: undiagnosed thyroid problems, a metabolism messed up by side effects of medications, environmental factors such as plastics, high fructose corn syrup, etc.
https://www.completerehabsolutions.com/blog/79xvmumu6nr I also agree that thin people can tend to fetishize food as much as obese people.
https://solomedicalsupply.com/2024/08/07/9au6ti5 At the same time, there are far more obese adults and children than there were a generation ago and it’s worth pondering what an Orthodox approach to this problem might be. It would seem that fasting alone isn’t sufficient as I haven’t observed that Orthodox folks are less overweight or obese than Protestants and Catholics or the general population. 🙂 I would be interested in reading further commentary from Fr. Ernesto along those lines.
https://www.psicologialaboral.net/2024/08/07/yu7xkaenhso
Notice that my first reply talks about the Gluttony of Delicacy. The making a fetish of food was well recognized by the early Church Fathers. However, I must point out that watching what one eats for health reasons, or watching what one eats because one is into sports, or watching what one eats to make sure that one does not eat dangerous foods is not the gluttonous sin of Delicacy, otherwise every monk who fasted and every person who kept Lent could reasonably be accused of that sin. More than that, any person who watches their diet for health reasons could be accused of that sin, if being concerned about food is the only criterion to define Delicacy. That is why CS Lewis’ example of Delicacy is actually a querulous person whose approach to food promotes not peace but discord.
I also mentioned how well CS Lewis skewers me. That is because I am no innocent in the area of gluttony and have to fight myself in that area as well. But, with regards to the Orthodox, fasting, and weight, see http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/3/16 The conclusion of that study, which focused on lipoproteins was:
“Adherence to Greek Orthodox fasting periods contributes to a reduction in the blood lipid profile including a non-significant reduction in HDL cholesterol and possible impact on obesity.”
I find it not helpful that Gary Taubes’ blog is cited. He is an incredibly controversial author whose conclusions are not backed by most scientists dealing with the field of nutrition and obesity. To say that his viewpoint is a minority viewpoint would be an understatement. So, I continue to stand firmly with both Christian tradition and most science to say that most obesity is indeed the gluttony of excess.
Frankly, as another poster pointed out, there are more obese children and adults than a generation ago. Moreover, the obesity problem we are having in the USA is significantly out of proportion with what one finds in the rest of the world. Just that evidence alone points to excess eating.
In passing, Mr. Taubes pulls a bit of a fast one in one other area. No series of biochemical events are simple on a chemical and physical level. And, following the current American love of psychologizing everything, he goes on to assert that the psychology of obesity is not simple. Again, no human behavior is simple, but that does not mean that at a macro level it cannot be summarized in a simple fashion. And, making everything psychologically complex is the current favorite American excuse for avoiding solving something.
It would be pointless and inconsiderate to debate Taubes’s thesis on your blog, but I would like to give my “n=1” experience. I started out 10 months ago at 365 lbs, and now weigh 245. I can tell you that it had been extremely difficult/ impossible for me to lose weight with the conventional paradigm of obesity is eating too much. Once I saw obesity in a different light, I realized that the problem was much, much different. I think it’s funny that you rely on the conventional wisdom of what scientists/doctors believe. Their efforts to “solve” an obesity crisis have been a monumental failure. Perhaps they don’t understand what’s really going on?
Honestly, I am glad I am not an obese person under your pastoral care. Telling people that their obesity is gluttony is unfortunate. Perhaps you would have to be obese/ work with obese people to understand?
But on the flip side of this, so many demands (for someone else) to lose weight — secular or medical, whether will-power and/or counting calries and grams to trans-fat and HDL/LDL — reek of “I THANK THEE, LORD, THAT I AM NOT LIKE THIS FAT SLOB OVER THERE” delivered by someone with <2% body fat.
There's also another factor I rang in with on Internet Monk's Gluttony open house: The opportunities for "grazing" that weren't there before. The software shop where I work has bowls of candy, break-room tables of snack foods, and a break-room fridge of soft drinks, all constantly being refilled. Two sets of sounds are near-continuous throughout the day: the clacking of keyboards and the chomp chomp chew chew pop-slurp chug chug nom nom nosh nosh nom nom nom.
Get home, and there's usually bags of chips next to the Internet-connected systems; my roomie used to really be famous for that during his full-honk WoW days. Again, opportuniites for "grazing" until you can be eating continuously on autopilot every day without even realizing it.
I saw that article as well, I’m glad you mentioned this.
As I move lurchingly through Lent trying to adjust the focus of my behavior, and my view of others, it has become quite clear to me that I have no place judging others. It is also becoming clear to me I am in great need of spiritual discipline and instruction. It does not seem to me in general that there is any great emphasis on either of these things in the U.S. “Christian” culture. Perhaps the study’s findings reflect but one symptom of this lack of emphasis.
You missed an obvious one — church potlucks!
That’s my vote, too. The image of the grossly-fat preacher (usually Baptist) denouncing every sin except gluttony is such an archteype it has to have basis IRL. (Months ago, Scotteriology had a video of a fat Baptist preacher whose sermon was “Yes, I’m fat, but you’re a Fag, and God Hates Homosexuality a LOT more than gluttony.”)
And the Baptist custom of all-you-can-eat Church Potlucks has to be a factor. They like to eat hearty in the Former Confederate States, even after middle-age spread hits. Just as it did that other hearty-eating Southern boy, Elvis.
There’s also another factor with “all-you-can-eat”. Of the all-you-can-eat places near my house, Hometown Buffet runs around $12 per person; local Chinese buffet, $16/person; local Mongolian BBQ, $12-14/person; local Churrascaria (reserved for special occasions) $25and up/person. When you’re shelling out that kind of cash, there’s this urge to get your money’s worth by eating as much a possible.
Back when I was going through college in the Seventies on $42 take-home a week, finding all-you-can-eat places became a survival mechanism. It’s one of those things you learn to stretch your cash.
I guess I’d like to know if you see any evidence that American Orthodox are any less gluttonous or obese than American Christians of other persuasions.
See http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/3/16 The conclusion of that study, which focused on lipoproteins was:
“Adherence to Greek Orthodox fasting periods contributes to a reduction in the blood lipid profile including a non-significant reduction in HDL cholesterol and possible impact on obesity.”
It’s perfectly believable that *following* the Orthodox fasting diet would tend to produce those good results (though even the study conclusion you quote here is tentative on the diet’s impact on obesity). But the fasting guidelines on paper don’t equal a population that follows those guidelines. We all know about Orthodox who complain that they gain weight during Lent (and maybe we’re among them, ahem). I guess what I’m saying is, the “American” in American Orthodox wins. We just follow our American gluttonous habits, even to the point of thinking we’re fasting when we over-indulge in lenten foods. So, it’d be interesting to know if there’s any actual difference in obesity among Orthodox compared to other American churches.
But I’m also interested in other points you make, namely: one, that we are busy condemning other sins of the body while we are gluttonous. The righteous indignation and public crusading against sexual sins is rather pathetic coming from a bunch of gluttons who have “baptized” gluttony and have completely disposed of any concern for it. And, two, that many secular people show more self-restraint and modesty in their eating habits than church people. I myself have lamented the irony when I remember how my husband and I used to eat in a much more “lenten” way all the time back in our “Diet for a Small Planet” and Mennonite-inspired “More With Less Cookbook” days than we do now. Now, and I admit this is rather childish, but I think it’s common, after Orthodox fasting periods we tend to overdo the meat and dairy, just because we can. Stupid, isn’t it?
My wife and I still do some of the lentil recipes from the “More With Less Cookbook.”
You make a very good point. If the Orthodox person is American, then even if they are observant, they will have a tendency towards overweight, though I would argue that it is not as much as it would otherwise be. But, I have been in three congregations with a percentage of immigrant Orthodox. They are invariable close to their correct weight, or at least not obese. That is, the immigrant Orthodox, who may have lived for years in the USA, are the evidence that the obesity in the USA is truly gluttony, in most–but not all–cases.
I think some of that is due to the Orthodox manner of flaking out — ascetic Monk-Wannabes.
When Protestants flake out, it’s usually an End-of-the-World thing. (Which might lead to getting fat — when the World Ends Tomorrow and It’s All Gonna Burn, what does it matter how fat you get?)
When Catholics flake out, it’s usually some form of Mary Channeling.
When Orthodox flake out, it’s usually become as ascetic a monk as possible, whether you’ve taken any vows or not.
Ryan, I side with “conventional” wisdom because of the evidence of people in other countries. Obesity is simply not the problem that it is over here. Frankly, there are many matters that are difficult to solve in the USA because of our culture, but not necessarily because the current conclusions of the science community are wrong. Simply calling it “conventional” wisdom does not prove it wrong. Simply having Mr. Taubes make a host of statements which are not backed by the main science community does not make him right.
A significant part of the difficulty of bringing change about in the USA has been increasing and aggressive autonomy, which means that my judgment on any and every subject is the right judgment, and the rejection of any authority’s right, whether scientific or moral or governmental, to speak into our lives. That is what makes change difficult, not a mistaken scientific community. Alcoholics Anonymous, and groups like them, have the right of it. In order to change, one must first admit that one is out of control and needs the help of a Higher Power, one must confess and make ammends, one must have a companion to whom they listen to help them along the way, etc. But, that means that one has to give up some of one’s vaunted autonomy.
OK, we’ll have to agree to disagree here. My assertion is that American obesity finds it roots in the kind and quality of food that American culture finds appropriate today. This is namely our lack of a food history and our over reliance on the industrialization of food (vegetable oils, fructose, refined carbs). We are not designed to consume this food, and it breaks us chemically. The more people eat traditionally, the healthier they tend to be (hence the lack of obesity in many other places, although the more those places adopt an American way of eating they tend to become fat and unhealthy). I don’t believe it has anything to do with one’s self control or lack thereof, because I have been there, and am close to too many people who have been there also.
Thanks for the conversation.