A Roman Catholic saint that is not often remembered nowadays is Joan of Arc. She dates to just before the Protestant Reformation. She is considered a national heroine of France, but is a most odd saint. The story is as follows:
Saint Joan of Arc or The Maid of Orléans (French: Jeanne d’Arc, ca. 1412 – 30 May 1431) is considered a national heroine of France and a Catholic saint. A peasant girl born in eastern France who claimed Divine guidance, she led the French army to several important victories during the Hundred Years’ War which paved the way for the coronation of Charles VII. She was captured by the Burgundians, sold to the English, tried by an ecclesiastical court, and burned at the stake when she was nineteen years old. Twenty-five years after the execution, Pope Callixtus III examined the trial, pronounced her innocent and declared her a martyr. She was beatified in 1909 and canonized in 1920. She is, along with St. Denis, St. Martin of Tours, St. Louis IX, and St. Theresa of Lisieux, one of the patron saints of France.
Joan asserted that she had visions from God which instructed her to recover her homeland from English domination late in the Hundred Years’ War. The uncrowned King Charles VII sent her to the siege of Orléans as part of a relief mission. She gained prominence when she overcame the dismissive attitude of veteran commanders and lifted the siege in only nine days. Several more swift victories led to Charles VII’s coronation at Reims and settled the disputed succession to the throne.
She is a most interesting Christian in that she fits no mold of any type. And yet, when one reads her story, one sees that what she said came about. She was a teenager with no military training. And yet, she was successful. She really did lead the French army to unexpected victories over the English. She was dead by 19, murdered in a most horrible death. But, in the meantime she gave France her freedom. And because she gave France her freedom, the United States of America has its freedom. The French came and helped the Americans during the time of the Revolution. The main helper was the Marquis de Lafayette. Who was he?
The French general the Marquis de Lafayette, called the hero of two worlds, was prominent in both the American Revolution and the French Revolution. Born on Sept. 6, 1757, to a noble family in the Auvergne, he defied the French authorities in 1777 by crossing the Atlantic to offer his services to the Continental Congress at Philadelphia. He was a friend of George Washington, who became his model, and served under him at the Battle of the Brandywine and at Valley Forge.
In 1779 he went to France to expedite the dispatch of a French army, but he returned to distinguish himself again at Yorktown (1781). Brave in battle and staunch in adversity, Lafayette won enduring popularity in America, and his fame did much to make liberal ideals acceptable in Europe.
I must admit that I am not completely sure how to think about her. On the one hand, she appears to be a quite violent and bloody saint. On the other hand, if it were not for her, the United States of America might not have its freedom. She does not qualify as an Orthodox saint, since she was not Orthodox, but all that she claimed that God’s angels had spoken to her certainly did appear to come about.
So, is she from God or not from God? If one is a Roman Catholic, one has no choice but to say that she is from God. If one is Protestant or Orthodox, one certainly has to admit that she does not fit into any “traditional” mold. In fact, even for the Roman Catholics, she fits into no traditional mold. Oddly enough the fact that she fits into no traditional mold tends to suggest to me that she might very well be a saint of God. So often the saints do not fit into any traditional mold!
I have no sure conclusion about Joan of Arc. But, that particular person surely makes one think!
Padre, this has nothing to do with Joan, but I was just over at Pithless Thoughts and saw a cartoon of an Orthodox saint, St John the Faster. Worth a look, just for a chuckle:
http://pithlessthoughts.blogspot.com/
Father Ernesto,
From an earlier post (health care etc.) please accept my apology for my direct and rude comment directed toward you. Your response was correct. I have no right to offer that kind of comment or judgment about you regardless of the level of agreement or disagreement I might feel regarding your article. I feel doubly repentative given the fact that you are an Orthodox Priest though I should feel the same about any person.
Incidentally, I found the post regarding Joan of Arc both interesting and insightful.
JD Wilson
You are always welcome to disagree with me. I actually like a hearty argument. And, I have been known to admit when I have been incorrect. GRIN.
That’s good to know, I’ll have to read more often and closer for those tiny confessions. GRIN GRIN
Greetings mein herr. I enjoyed your Jeanne d’Arc post. It often has been the first saint to be recognized that begins the category. She still fits into no category. Yet I indeed agree that she is of God. After all, God controls history.
To J. D. Wilson a word. Fr. Ernesto and I have often disagreed in the past, and still do to this day. He is also a dear friend, even when he is wrong.
Other alleged saints were also too bloody and violent to be saints. St. Jerome’s sainthood is problematic, because he justified the death penalty for heretics. (Heron, The Evolution of Latin Christianity, p. 323). The Empress Theodora’s sainthood is impossible because she killed 100,000 Paulicians. No saint of God would ever kill another person just because of a difference in doctrine. Constantine slowly boiled his first wife under the suspicion of committing adultery, murdered his son Crispus, and killed his brother-in-law Licinius. Constantine also had Licinius’ son whipped to death for no reason. (Knapp, Proof of Vedic Culture’s Global Existence, p. 251). But the murders of Constantine may have happened before his alleged conversion to Christianity. I’m not sure.
Sadly, I believe that Constantine’s killings happened after his original declaration of Christianity. However, what we often do not allow for is whether a saint evolved into a saint. There have been more than one Orthodox or Catholic or Protestant believer who, while a believer, did something terrible, repented, and changed into the type of person whom we can honor as a saint. Francis of Assissi was a “playboy.” Ignatius Loyola was a rough soldier. And so on, and so on. More than one saint was a badly behaved believer who ended up in a monastery, or changed and did great works. Saint Mary of Paris is as odd, in some ways, as her predecessor Joan of Arc.
Constantine favored paganism in the empire even after his alleged conversion to Christianity. So his sainthood is problematic as well.
Father, I just want to note that while I could be wrong.. In the research that I’ve done, it seems that the evidence is that Joan did not personally engage with the sword, but rather carried her banner as a figurhead and rallypoint for the French Army. As a Marine Veteran, I would also say that this would make more sense.. In being their source of encouragement, if she were killed in combat it would have been devastating for morale of the Army.
She was also a teenage girl, while she was gifted with the wisdom to command, she would still be at a serious physical disadvantage against English Soldiers & Knights
Yes, that is correct, in fact she said so herself: during the fourth session of her trial, she said she stayed out of the fighting and carried her banner in battle. She also denied calling herself a commander, and the Royal records show that the army was always led by a nobleman. Numerous eyewitnesses confirm both points, and also say that she wept frequently even when English troops and commanders were killed while saying that she didn’t want to go to the war at all (she said she was ordered to do so by the saints in her vision, against her own inclinations).
We don’t want to commit the fallacy of Special Pleading. If violence and blood shed disqualifies Joan from being a saint, then others are also disqualified. Augustine was a persecutor and the father of the concept of Christian persecution. (Cloud, A History of the Churches, p. 41). The German Church historian, August Neander wrote that Augustine’s teaching “contains the germ of the whole system of spiritual despotism, intolerance, and persecution, even to the court of the Inquisition.” (page 41). Augustine interpreted Luke 14:23 (“compel them to come in”) to mean Christ required the churches to use force against heretics (page 41). Jesus Christ never told his followers to persecute and kill non-believers. In his parable of the wheat and tares, he taught that the wheat and tares are to grow together until the end. (Matthew 13:24-30). In the year 416 Augustine cursed Donatists for not baptizing infants. (Cloud, History of the Churches, p. 51). St. Paul told us to bless those who persecute us, and not to curse them (Romans 12:14). Christ taught us to bless those who curse us and to love our enemies (Matthew 5). How can any man who curses people and persecutes others be called “Blessed” Augustine?
The idea that Joan of Arc did not fit any of the usual “molds” for saints is based (apparently) on the idea that she fought or led the army in place of men, which she herself and other sources refuted on both points. Her actual role was that of a religious visionary in an era when there were many young women and girls in that position: e.g. St. Catherine of Siena advised Pope Urban VI in much the same way that Joan of Arc advised the commanders in Charles VII’s army. But just as Catherine of Siena didn’t become a “female Pope” but was only an advisor, Joan of Arc also did not become a female warrior: she said (during the fourth session of her trial) that she stayed out of the fighting and carried her banner in battle; and elsewhere in her testimony she denied calling herself a commander. Eyewitness accounts confirm both points, and the Royal military records show that the army was always led by a nobleman.
Thank you for the clarification.