https://polyploid.net/blog/?p=g8acz5uadj
Father Orthoduck wishes to apologize for Pat Robertson. He wishes to state that his comments are not to be taken as representative of Christian attitudes in the USA on the whole. Father Orthoduck does admit that there is a faction of Evangelicalism that is prone to believe in stories that make simplistic “spiritual” points without checking them out by doing even the most basic of fact checks. Sadly, during times of tragedy, they can be totally crude, insensitive, and quite sinful. In this case, Pat Robertson has done the equivalent of what the Westboro Baptist Church used to do when they sent protesters to the funerals of military personnel on the grounds that God was allowing our military members to be killed as a punishment for gays. What did Pat Robertson say?
Prescription Xanax Online Something happened a long time ago in Haiti … they were under the heel of the French, uh, you know, Napoleon the third and whatever … and they got together and swore a pact to the devil, they said, we will serve you, if you get us free from the Prince. True story. And so the devil said, ‘OK, it’s a deal.’ They kicked the French out. The Haitians revolted and got themselves free. Ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after the other.
So, is it a true story? One source says:
https://eloquentgushing.com/adxjd9e Témoins de l’alliance ? Selon les documents disponibles, il ne semble pas que Bookman ait conclu aucune alliance avec le Diable avant de lancer sa révolte. Il y eut certes une cérémonie au Bois Caïman, mais ce ne fut ni la première ni la dernière rencontre de ce genre. Quiconque est habitué avec le vodou sait que les sacrifices d’animaux constituent une partie intégrale des services, et que pratiquement tout se fait et se transmet oralement. Il n’y a donc aucun moyen sûr de savoir exactement ce que Bookman et les autres participants ont effectivement dit. Une synthèse des nombreuses traditions orales concernant la prière de Bookman est présentée à la page 43 de l’ouvrage ’Written in Blood’ publié aux Etats-Unis en 1978. Selon ce document, Bookman adressa sa prière au Dieu des cieux, créateur du soleil, et implora son secours ; mais il n’essaya pas toutefois d’établir un quelconque pacte spirituel.
The above paragraph boils down to the idea that it was unlikely. While it cannot be disproved that a secret pact was made with the devil, since it was secret, nevertheless, there is no evidence other than the legend that such a thing happened. A Haitian pastor with an earned Ph.D. further reports:
For quite some time now, several articles on the Internet have mentioned the existence of an iron pig statue in Port-au-Prince as a monument to commemorate Haiti’s so-called pact with the devil through Vodou. The statue would be in remembrance of a pig that was killed during the gathering by the African slaves. In an effort to know more about that rumor, I contacted several authors about the exact location of the pig statue that’s incidentally nowhere to be found in the country. Their answer was complete silence, a simple apology, or just the removal of the reference from their texts.
https://www.clawscustomboxes.com/jqmfzd78 So, where did the story come from? No one knows for sure. The returning defeated French soldiers wrote about the courage of the slaves who fought them and won the revolution. The best guess is that white people could not believe that black slaves could so rise up and defeat a white army without external help. Since there was obviously no external white help, then it must have been external spiritual help. And, surely God would not have helped black slaves to revolt! As to the authors of the legend, some think it was some of the returning French soldiers, while others believe that it was incoming missionaries. And, as the story gained strength, even some of the Haitian pastors came to believe it, and all without proof, without diary entries, and without any mention of such a pact by any revolutionary leader.
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Bill says
When I first saw this headline regarding Pat Robertson, I cringed…
In the book of Revelation 5 we are told that Christ has redeemed to Himself a people out of every kindred, tribe, tongue, and nation. That includes Haiti… If there was a pact with the devil or not, Christ is Victor and He has, is, and will overthrow ALL the works of hell…
The other thing is, curse or not, Haitians are our fellow human beings created in the image of God. They are the “neighbor” we are to love… And the rest of us, Pat Robertson included, come into this world under the curse of original sin as much as any Haitian. We ALL face a curse. We ALL need a redeemer and Saviour.
Kyrie eleison!
In Scripture Jesus called only the Good Samaritian “Neighbor” not the other two and that had nothing to do with where they dwelt??? Scripture tells us ” there be no power but the powers of God and the powers that be ordained of God”… So, from whence did/does this devil get his power ??? One Scripture calls him ” the son of the morning”
Sounds like Adam to me since that Scripture is a proverb against the king of Babylon, an Adam person…If you can see it all Scripture is about, just two men, both Sons of God…Adam and Christ…the good thing about Adam the 6 man, is; add one to six and WOW Seven and Christ is that Seven Man, that could not fail and Adam ( the creature man,or the 6 man) was made subject to vanity, and had to fail…Just part of the Good News is, He was subjected to it in Hope…Jesus…Amen
Thank you so much for this post. Pat Robertson is an embarrassment and so often a cause of hurt and pain. I pray that he may find true conversion of heart to the way of Christ.
I grew up in the Caribbean and this has particularly touched me. May God have mercy.
Robertson may need to keep his mouth shut more, but the bigger picture is he is also raising tons of money for Haiti and praying for it as well. The Pile-on is so predictable. Since his comments are apparently no surprise to those who disdain him so, why be amongst those calling more attention to them? And David Brooks in the NYT outlines a different sort of curse that deserves considering: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/15/opinion/15brooks.html
Because it is better if each group (Christian, Jewish, Catholic, liberal, conservative, etc.) calls out to its own for misdeeds. As a priest, I am very aware of what it has meant to the reputation of bishops that they never called out those of us who engaged in horrible sin against children. We lose all credibility when we fail to discipline our own.
That was a quite interesting article by David Brooks. But, it means that he is clearly advocating nation-building, a practice that has quite a few problems. Nevertheless, what he says is true. Culture plays a much larger part in every decision we make than we would care to believe. We are not as internally free as we claim to be.
True that (all).
My last gasp is simply this: correcting or lamenting P.R. is one thing. But many are engaging in shrill demonizing, which is another. Witness some of the posts over at ‘Evangel’ blog, where I think one writer would like to kick the corpse to a bloody pulp. Being embarrassed by someone does not make them an idiot… just an embarrassment. When you over-apologize for a relative, you end up looking excessive yourself. Not the case here, as aI re-read, but in many other locales. Regards.
You are right, Joe. Actually, Father Orthoduck had to rewrite the original blog post several times, because they were too angry. And, when he would read them, he realized that he, himself, was over into “shrill demonizing.” This was my least angry version. Father Orthodocuk probably should fish for the log in his eye, right? GRIN.
I worked for a SSgt Burk in Alaska in 1961, we were USAF, I an A1C, we were also drinking Buddies, He an R.C. And I unbaptized…one Evening in the Club, after a few Beers…I ask him, “why do you guys call your Priest, Father, when the Bible says not to do it”…He didn’t know that was Scripture, so off we go to his quarters, located his Bible, and found it in the Scripture…He replied after reading it, “I don’t know, but we do”…So, will you answer it for me ??? oh, yes; he also got me promoted to A2C…and Now I claim to be A Baptist/Catholic (as in Universalist)Jew (as in spiritual). Thanks
From 2 Corinthians 12 – “Now I am ready to visit you for the third time, and I will not be a burden to you, because what I want is not your possessions but you. After all, children should not have to save up for their parents, but parents for their children. So I will very gladly spend for you everything I have and expend myself as well.”
From 1 Timothy 2 – “as you know how we exhorted, and comforted, and charged every one of you, as a father does his own children.”
From 1 Corinthians 4 – “I do not write these things to shame you, but as my beloved children I warn you. For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.”
Well, either Saint Paul was disobeying Christ by calling himself a Father and expecting those whom he oversaw to treat him as their spiritual Father, or Protestants have grabbed one verse out of context and ignored all the other New Testament verses (for there are indeed more) that refer to those who have watchcare over you as a fathers. I would suggest it is the latter because otherwise we must say that Saint Paul was disobeying Christ by behaving and calling himself a Father.
https://foster2forever.com/2024/08/1ki6fqlbw.html Culture plays a much larger part in every decision we make than we would care to believe. We are not as internally free as we claim to be.
And Haiti began as a total slave-plantation culture under the French, where they killed off their slaves so fast they always were in the market for replacements. (It was literally cheaper to kill-and-replace than it was to take care of their “animate property” in the first place. Not only slavery, but disposable slavery like you didn’t see again until Auschwitz.)
Funny thing about a culture of total slavery, where there are only slaves and slaveowners. Freedom gets redefined as “Now *I* get to be The Slaveowner.” And when the Haitian Revolution blew up in the 1780s, they followed this redefinition to the bitter end. Even reversing the French planters’ definition of 128 separate steps of “colored” between black & white to where 1/128th more BLACK meant you could stamp on the face of the 1/128th less-black subhuman.
Add in Voudoun, which was encouraged by several of Haiti’s rulers (i.e. new slaveowners) to keep the people in their place, stupid and superstitious, always in terror of the Loa (and their rulers who summoned and commanded them).
Result: Haiti is like a lot of Africa, the Third World of the Third World.
Fr,
I saw this clip on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart. I about died from embarrassment. It’s a sad day when a late-night comic makes more sense than a clergy member… Oh AND Mr. Stewart quoted Scripture! (Not that any sensible Christian would get spiritual advise from him, mind you, but in this regard he made more sense than Mr. Robertson.)
A week from today I’m going to be in San Jose at an SF/Fantasy/Furry con. Last year, when I plugged the Lost Genre Guild, Marcher Lord Press, and other alternative Christian F&SF writers & publishers at the BayCon room party, one guy there HAD to get all smug in my face about Invisible Sky Fairies, Harry Potter book-burnings, The Inquisition, Flat Earth, Young Earth Creationism, Rapture Scare of the month, et al.
This year I expect to get lectured at length about Pat Robertson.
Just remind tham that Dannny Glover blamed the whole thing on global warming. Yes, children, a leftist thinks that the Haitian Earthquake was an act of Gaia’s Vengeance. The idiot.
Your blessing, Father.
Pat Robertson says some amazing things. Years ago I told someone how much I like Manitou Springs, Colorado, and they suggested I shouldn’t live there as it’s been dedicated to the devil. My response was that every town on earth has probably been dedicated to the devil by some kooky person living there at some time. Same I imagine goes for pacts with the devil. I’m in Edinburgh and local history abounds with tales of witches and warlocks making pacts with Auld Nick and coming to sticky ends yet Arthur’s Seat hasn’t erupted.
And the false legends created by evangelicals roll on and on.
“Pat Robertson says some amazing things.”
THIS is the perfect retort, and the only one *any one* ever needed to make!
Will i never learn that less is more? LOL