PHOENIX — There was a time in the Wild West that cowboys had to check their guns before they could pull up a bar stool for a drink — rules that protected against the saloon gunfights that came to define the frontier era in places like Arizona.
But a bill moving through the Arizona Legislature has some bar owners fearful that the state is turning back the clock to the Old West. Lawmakers are considering a bill that would allow anyone with a concealed-weapons permit to bring a handgun into bars and restaurants serving alcohol.
The bill gives bars discretion to keep gun-toting patrons out, and anyone with a weapon would not be allowed to drink. But the bill has angered bar owners who believe booze and guns are a recipe for disaster. . .
The article partially quoted above came from Fox News. And, it was not a positive article. I find myself asking if some are not carrying support of the Second Amendment a little too far. Guns in a bar???? Frankly, I cannot blame the bar owners! No, I am not against private ownership of guns. I am not against people with concealed gun permits. I am a veteran. I have a daughter who is a 2nd Lieutenant engaged to a currently serving member of the Air Force. But, let me be clear, I am against people with concealed gun permits drinking alcohol in a bar while packing!
But, this brings up an interesting question. Is it really necessary to increasingly pass laws that allow us to return to the Wild West just to make a point? Perhaps this hits me strongly because of the news this week about the Pentecostal pastor who asked his people to bring guns to church to make a point. You see, the Orthodox have always had a complex attitude towards subjects of this type.
As a priest, should I kill someone, even in full self-defense, I will be forever barred from celebrating the Eucharist. And, yet, we do believe in the idea of a just war, and we have saints who were soldiers. On the one hand, he who sheds blood after becoming a priest is considered unworthy of the altar. On the other hand, we value those who defend our country, whichever country that happens to be. And, yet, if a policeman or a soldier kills someone else, even if completely justified, that person must abstain from the Eucharist until such a time as they have been able to go to confession. Some Orthodox jurisdictions even forbid that person from the Eucharist for a period of time, even with confession.
Even though the Orthodox have a history of empires and many wars, we have never lost the idea that taking a human life is a serious matter. A human is made in the image of God and bears that image to this day. Thus, even when justifiable, the taking of a human life requires us to confess that we have done that which is normally forbidden. And, a priest is required to be a living example of Christ. So, we need to be willing to die, just like Jesus was, rather than taking a human life.
So, what does this have to do with the proposed law about packing in a bar? I am concerned that we are making it increasingly easy for people to take a human life when it is not for reason of self-defense. There is a reason why our existing gun laws ban people from packing in certain situations, and ban them completely from packing unless they have a concealed gun permit. It is because certain situations lend themselves to “angry” shootings. It is why some of the Old West marshalls had people turn in their guns when they came into town or refused to allow guns inside saloons. It was just plain stupid to allow cowboys to pack a gun into a saloon. It is just as stupid today.
And what does this have to do with a Pentecostal pastor who invites people to his congregation while packing? The Church is a place that is supposed to reflect the Kingdom of God on earth. In this case, it means that it should reflect the idea that human life ought not to be easily taken. There is a reason why there was the old medieval idea that a church building was a place where someone could go to claim sanctuary. The church was a place into which violence and weapons were not supposed to go. Sanctuary was a reflection of the belief that human life is made in the image of God. Once someone crossed the portal of that church and made it to the altar, pursuit stopped. This idea is also why a church is considered desecrated if blood was violently spilled within it. To damage someone made in the image of God in a church was to soil that church’s possibility of reflecting the Kingdom of God until it was spiritually cleansed. Thus, the Pentecostal pastor is ever so wrong to have people bring guns to church. He is essentially desecrating it.
Very balanced take, Fr. Evangelical historian Mark Noll has argued in his book America's God that, while Christianity had a strong role is shaping American society, many aspects of American society, such as its rampant individualism, also greatly affected the flavor of Christianity that tended to develop in America.
Indiana and Pennsylvania, to name but two states, have never had such idiotic laws barring firearms from bars, and there have never been any “Wild West” incidents. But that is the hysteria you hear every time somebody suggests that the Constitution should actually be followed, and it NEVER happens. Those who wring their hands about blood in the streets and the “wild west” are at best, irrational.
And I mine is far from the only car in our church parking lot with an NRA sticker on it. If guns make you nervous, you wouldn’t like Pennsylvania, except for Philadelphia, where you might actually be shot.
Hmm, I think you missed the part where I commented that I was a veteran and my daughter a 2nd Lt. Guns do not make me nervous, I can shoot several types and my daughter is a better shot with a pistol than I ever was. My wife worked for a while with the sheriff’s department in Alabama across the hallway from the section for pistol permits. And, I commented that I am not against concealed gun permits.
I do question whether the right to bear arms means to bear them anywhere and in any situation. I pointed out that it was Fox News, not known to be a liberal network, who ran that story and it also questioned the rationality of those who would want to allow people to pack guns in a bar. Now, if a network known for its support of Second Amendment rights can have second thoughts about that law in Arizona, then it just might be an irrational law.
Furthermore let me tell you about bar shootings in Pennsylvania:
“WASHINGTON, Pa. — Authorities in western Pennsylvania have decided to seek the death penalty against a man accused of killing two people and wounding a third outside a western Pennsylvania bar in February. [2009]” If you read the story it started out inside the bar.
“PHILADELPHIA, Pa. — Police say gunfire in a packed North Philadelphia bar has killed one person and injured six others. Police say someone began firing at about 1:15 a.m. Sunday in La Quinta Restaurant and Bar in the Feltonville section of the city.”
And bar shootings in Indiana:
“INDIANAPOLIS — An Indianapolis police officer was arrested Sunday night on a preliminary murder charge, accused of providing the gun that someone used to kill a security guard outside an east-side Indianapolis pub early New Year’s Day.” If you read the story it started out inside the bar.
“INDIANA (KDKA) — Police have arrested an Indiana University of Pennsylvania student in connection to a shooting that sent another student to the hospital. According to authorities, the shooting victim, Justin McCoy, was out with friends Thursday night at Cullpeppers Bar when another group reportedly tried to start an argument with them.” The shooting was in Pennsylvania, Indiana, ironic is it not?
I picked two from each state, there were more bar shootings than that. Both states have had violence in bars and immediately outside of bars (Wild West faceoff) as a result of an argument in a bar.
Your premise is that the Government should have power to fine you, imprison you, or kill you if you are [ suspected of ] carrying a gun in a bar? You, an Orthodox priest, are not talking about right and wrong, but about coercion and violence. Odd.
Odd, I re-read the post from five years ago, and I certainly do not find what you said. Talk about inappropriate extrapolation!
I will have to read that book!