OK, so it is a bad pun. But, there are two ideas that make me go towards believing in the invocation of the saints. I have already mentioned that invoking the saints is found very early in Church history and is found universally. I will mention that one of the principles that many scholars follow is that the earlier a practice is found in Church history, the wider its geographical dispersion, and the more universally it is accepted, then the closer the beginning of that practice is to the time of the Apostles. This does not mean that the practice is necessarily God-blessed. But, it does mean that, if the practice is early and universally accepted, it is much more likely that it originated during apostolic times.
You see, the reason I believe in bishops over geographical areas, liturgy, catechism, church canons that outline our worship and our fasting, etc., is not only that they have been taught to me by Holy Tradition, but also that when one does a historical study, all the practices that I have mentioned are found in history and in the letters of the Early Church Fathers, from times when at least one or some of the Apostles were still alive. Now, I will agree that invocation of the saints is not found clearly written from as early as bishops, liturgy, etc. But, when it is found in the writings, it is found universally, with no arguments against it. And, it is found written by some of the same Church Fathers whom we all revere for having fought to correctly define the faith as over against the heretics.
The second reason is that we view the 1000 year reign of the saints with Christ in the heavenlies as happening now. We see a 1000 years as simply indicating a very long period of time, and not a set period of time. The Book of Revelation oscillates between images of heaven, where all is in control and orderly and images of earth where the chaos and persecution are constant companions. From heaven’s viewpoint, God is in control and has a guiding hand on the events on earth. From earth’s viewpoint, events keep happening the defy human attempts to explain them or to exert control over them. Thus, we see the saints as aware and governing with Christ right now. Their authority is delegated and, ultimately, it is Christ who rules. Nevertheless, they do have authority and they do govern. Here on earth, many have the experience of asking for the intercession of a saint and receiving an answer from God. This is not as surprising as one may think, if the saints are truly governing with Christ. In fact, in some ways, it is no different whether God works through me as I anoint someone with oil, or as I hear their confession, or as I consecrate the elements, or as I give them wise counsel, or even as He performs a small miracle through me, or whether God works through a saint who is already in glory with him.
Well, I suspect it is time to stop. But, I hope I have explained something of how we look at the invocation of the saints.
Fr. Ernesto,
Thank you again for addressing this issue of the Theotokos, the saints, and our relationship to them.
As for the invocation issue I agree that history should indeed be a serious guide to what we do and believe here and now. As I have complained before about evangelicalism many of us act as if the church started with the Reformation. Not a good thing. You also mentioned the saints and their reign with Jesus, another point to consider for sure.
However, still not sure how strong a case there is for praying to/invoking the assistance of the saints. I know that God accomplishes his purposes through the hand of others, but how that should flesh itself out in this respect is still unclear to me. As such it would be hard for me to act on it with any conviction.
God’s blessing to you!
On the bright side, it is NEVER wrong to address Our Father in heaven in prayer. Notice that the most popular Orthodox prayer is actually the Jesus Prayer, which comes in a couple of versions. “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.” So that even as we believe in the invocation of the saints, yet our most frequent prayer is addressed directly to the Son of God. That means that our biggest emphasis is Christological not hagiographical.
Also, by tradition (not Holy Tradition, just tradition) the most frequent prayers used to begin any time of worship or simply to begin a Bible Study, or a church meeting, etc. are the Trisagion Prayers, which are directed at God and not at either the Theotokos or the saints.
The Trisagion Prayers
Holy God, Holy Mightly, Holy Immortal, have mercy upon us.
Holy God, Holy Mightly, Holy Immortal, have mercy upon us.
Holy God, Holy Mightly, Holy Immortal, have mercy upon us.
Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit,
now and ever and unto ages of ages Amen.
All Holy Trinity have mercy on us. Lord cleanse us from our sins. Master pardon our iniquities. Holy God, visit an heal our infirmities for thy name’s sake.
Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen. Lord, have mercy. Lord, have mercy. Lord, have mercy.
Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed by thy name. Thy Kingdom come. Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And, lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.
For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen.
Yes, I only discovered the Trisagion Prayers last year. What a beautiful way to address God! I use it in my morning prayers often during the week. I use to have a problem with the oft request to God for mercy (Have mercy on us), but now I understand it to be more an expression of our need for God’s daily assistance and grace rather than a type of pious grovel. I now ask him often for it.
Grace and peace.
I probably missed something in your explanation somewhere, but here is the thing:
We can probably agree that with the New Covenant, certain aspects of Mosaic Law (ex: dietary) are not strictly binding on Christians. However, God’s Law is eternal, and the prohibition of Necromancy (consulting sorcerers, mediums, the spirits of departed ones, etc) particularly comes to mind.
Now, I understand the orthodox (in this case not referring strictly to Orthodox Christianity) view is that those in Christ are not truly dead, but alive. However, they are nonetheless dead. How then is invocation not necromancy? Also, assuming invocation is an acceptable practice, how can the Saints (and Angels) hear our prayers?
As a ecumenically minded Lutheran, I don’t consider invocation to be necromancy. Only if asking for insights in worldly affairs, communications from, or the appearance of someone no longer visible in this world , would it be necromancy. It is, like in so much, the intentions that matter. Necromancy is not forbidden simply because. It is to protect you from damaging yourself spiritually. Asking for prayers, I would find completely fine, though not if it overshadows actually praying to God. Perhaps asking for lending of virtues, would also be fine at times, when comfortable in ones faith in God, and seeking to grow and learn in thankfulness for all God has done. But I would be careful not to make such my go to thing to do in distress and when confused. One should trust and thank God, because only His is the power.
Whether or not it is fruitful, is another matter. I have no idea how, or if they can hear us. But it seems uplifting to think that it is possible.
“I have no idea how, or if they can hear us.”
From Genesis (the angel at the gate of Paradise, the three angels who visited Abraham) through Joshua (Michael telling Joshua that he was a commander in the Lord’s army) through 2 Kings 6 where Elijah opens Elisha’s eyes so that he may see the angels all around protecting Israel, through the end of the New Testament (the angel in Revelation offering up the prayers of the saints) it clearly shows the angels not just hearing, but also responding (always with God’s permission).
And, I have cited only a few of the many passages that show that there is not a strict wall of separation between this world and the next. The wall of separation is cited between Dives and Lazarus in the parable in which Dives is told that not even if a man rose from the dead would they believe. But it is a wall between those who have failed the judgment and those who are with Abraham. Notice that in the parable Abraham knows what is going on on the Earth.